Lavis's Fire Missles

[Mew]

Lavis's Fire Missiles

Evocatoin (Fire)
Spell level: 5 Wiz/Sor, 6 Fire
Components: S, V
Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: Med (100 feet +10 feet/level)
Target: Up to 5 targets, no two farther than 25 feet apart (all targets must be in Line of Sight)
Area of effect: 5X5 Foot splash
Duration: Instantanious (burn for 1D4 rds)
Saving Throw: Ref (half damage)
Spell Resistance: Yes

Lavis's Fire Missiles shoot up to 5 unerroring flaming Missiles (one per three caster levels) at up to 5 targets (one per three caster levels rounded down). Each missile does 1D8 for every three caster levels (rounded down, max 6D8), and any creature that fails its save will continue to burn for 1D4 rds. Each round spent burning causes 1D8 per round of burning left (successful Ref save [spell DC-rounds spent on fire] for half damage and extinguishes the fire). The Fire Missiles also cause non-magical items (wood bows, books, rope, etc...) to catch fire automatically. Magical flameables (spell books, magic rope, spell scrolls, etc...) must make a Ref save (as Creature holding/wearing them), or be destroyed. For each pluss an item has it gains a +2 to its save (Items with no plus receive a +1 to save for each magic ability).

*Some credit must go to Lyle Leaberman, for some of the effects of the spell.*

[Ark]

Looks pretty good, but the spell level looks too high. This does less damage than a fireball, and has pretty much the same effects, but Fireball is only 3rd level.

[Knight of Roses]

Even though it can set things in fire, the duration is still instantaneous.

There are actually rules for being on fire in the DMG. But you will have to look for them.

I would downgrade the damage per bolt to 1d8 per 4 levels (to a maximum of 5d8).

Arc, the spell does more damage then a fireball but to a smaller number of targets plus the bonus of setting the target's things (and maybe the target) on fire.

[Ark]

Yeah, Alum's right, it even says so in the Fireball spell description.

[Ark]

I'd probably label this as a level 2 spell, most level 1's max at 5d4 while level 3's max at between 10 and 15 dice.

[Knight of Roses]

Alum666/Ark there is a qualitative difference between "sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze" and "The Fire Missiles also cause non-magical items (wood bows, books, rope, etc...) to catch fire automatically. Magical flameables (spell books, magic rope, spell scrolls, etc...) must make a Ref save (as Creature holding/wearing them), or be destroyed." Whice implies that all non-magical items are automatically destroyed by this fire.

This spell can do up to 25d8 damage (112.5 pts on an average roll, over 3 times the average of a 10d6 fireball) and that is not including any additional damage from being on fire. In addition, all non-magical flammable objects on the target are destroyed as well as the possibility of destroying any and all magical flammable objects on a character (say goodbye to all of your scrolls).

[Ark]

KoR, read the fireball description of the spell. Its the same thing, only items do not get Reflex saves, as they cannot move, items only do Fortitude saves, and Will saves if they are an Intelligent item.

As for 25d8 it said a maximum 5d8, I thought that meant overall maximum (1d8 per missile, max of 5 missiles). But if it was meant to be 1d8/level EACH missle with a flat 5 missiles all the time, that's different THAT would add up to 25d8. If you did THAT I would suggest the spell level should be at 5.

[Knight of Roses]

Originally posted by Mew@Feb 17 2005, 05:20 PM
Lavis's Fire Missiles shoot 5 unerroring flaming missiles at up to 5 targets. Each missile does 1D8 X caster level (max 5D8)
That is exactly what it says each missile (and there are always five) does xd8 damage.

The difference between fireball and this, it that in the case of fireball it is up to the DM how much of a character's personal effects are destroyed. The fire missiles simply destroy non-magical one.

[Ark]

Well, by "unerroring" I hope you don't mean like magic missles (which are autohits), because that alone unbalances the whole thing. I see Reflex save up there so I'm assuming "unerroring" just some good quality theatrics. ;)

Destroying nonmagical items isn't THAT a big deal, Blight does that with plants. The ability to do that at higher spell levels (like 5 and 6) really becomes obsolete, because by this high of a level, on average, you're far too powerful to worry about such things.

However, instant death of people and magical items IS a big deal, and where by 3.5 D&D rules items get fortitude saves and will saves, this spell allows a reflex save for half damage. Taking damage is perfectly normal, most people don't realize it, but when they are hit with a fireball, even though they survive their equipment is still supposed to take that damage as well. Most people just tend not to meddle with those details because its just hassle to rebuy everything.

The main thing I see in this spell is it doesn't have a radius effect, only 5 targets. Meaning it can only catch the door on fire if the door is targeted with one or more of the missles. However, one could make the missiles burst in tiny explosions to change that. :evil: , although it looks balanced as is in that respect.

DM discretion always changes, fireball used exactly by the book damages everything within its radius and everything flammable catches fire, magic or not.

[Mew]

Lavis's Fire Missiles has been edited to clarify some of the confusion about it.

[Ark]

I like the spell and it does look better, I do not like the alteration to the 3.5 rules. Items never make reflex saves unless they can move on their own.

[Knight of Roses]

The fact is that fireball is a bad spell to compare this to, as fireball is the best 3rd lvl combat spell period. In fact, it is so good, it should probably be a 4th lvl spell. But the 3rd lvl fireball (like the 1st lvl magic missile) are artefacts of the D&D system.

The fire missile spell can deliever 25d8 to a single target, this is a lot of damage (see my early post for the average). That alone makes this a potent spell.

Heat metal uses a Will save for objects in possession of a person to resist the effects of the spell. In this case, I think Mew (correct me if I am wrong) is trying to model the target keeping his items away from the impact of the fire missiles.

[Mew]

KoR is exactly right. This assumes that the target(s) are trying to avoid the spell contacting with their flammable goods.

(I am still used to 3.0, not 3.5) :blush:

I still think that I will edit this spell at least once more: by giving higher level spellcasters more missiles (and lesser level casters fewer) and a linear increase of damage.

[Ark]

Holding on to items is one thing, that makes perfect sense, but not for lone objects. 3.0 makes a lot of sense why its a bit different. Don't worry, we 3.5ers all made the transition and I personally think 3.5 is a lot less munchkiny and more balanced than the last version, but as long as you're in the 3's I can see where you're coming from on that. Although, with items it really doesn't make any difference, unless an item explicitely has a bonus to a specific save, all magic items have their saves with the same boosts so whether they roll Ref or Fort its no different. Except for Intelligent items, which would have higher wisdom scores, but that's a different subject.

[Mew]

In 3.5 do items that are carried (ie: backpacks, sheathed weapons...) and clothing take damage if you do?
If someone is wearing a "nobels outfit", and say; saves vs. acid breath, is he wearing a "nobels outfit" or a "beggars outfit"? What if he fails the save?

[Ark]

Items do take damage, but only from splash and area effects or effects that specifically target the item. Magical items can make saves to resist certain effects from spells. However, it is a common "unwritten rule" that your items aren't hurt unless they are specifically targeted, because it just creates a lot of hassle to mess with "Well my items took this much damage, this one is located here so that one only took half, and the other one took none, now I don't have this and that so I'll purchase this and that at the next shop and waste valuable RP time rewriting my sheet equipment." Etc. :blush: Yeah, though unrealistic to just let items not be hurt, it does take stress off the players and DM to just leave the items alone, although realistically they do take damage.

[Mew]

If you read the spell, it targets items being worn as well as the person wearing them. If you want you could consider the Missles as having a very small splash effect.

[Ark]

Yeah, that's what I was asking if these had a splash effect or not. If they do that would make them area affecting and then they would affect nontargeted items as well.

[Mew]

Can you have a spell with a 15-50 cm splash area?

[Ark]

Eh, I think it would just be like a 5ft.x5ft. splash radius so it only affects personal squares. The system goes by feet and inches, but you could always say a 1ft.x1ft. space too so that only that person and their equipment gets hit and not someone in melee with them. Just a thought.

[Mew]

Change made.

(I think) :unsure:

[Ark]

Nice, it looks better.

[Ark]

And chain lightning is even worse...:ninja: