Feeler for a game ... Paladins only!

[The Speaker in Dreams]

HI all!

I'm throwing out a feeler for a pretty standard game here, though the PL/ECL is undecided right now. The point of the game would be to try out playing with a Damage Save system vs. standard Hit Points.

All other rules would stay as is, but the DS would replace HP entirely. It is a varient rule (with a few home-brew twists) that comes from Unearthed Arcana and uses options from Mutants and Masterminds.

The feel/tone of the game will be/should be high-heroics with some truly outstanding PC's saving the local community and stepping up to the call of adventure and duty for the good of the community.

I'm thinking a small-moderate sized township a good deal away from any major cities or settlements will be the home setting. All PC's should have some sort of connection to this area (born and raised, specifically on assignment/assigned to the region, etc), though there could be an exception or two - depends on concept, etc.

Since part of the point is to test out the damage save system, it's likely going to start at level 1 - 2 and progress from there to see how the DS system can effect a game with M&M options in place.

So ... would there be any interest in such a game?

[colonialbob]

Is this going to be sorcerers and fighters or superheros? I can't quite tell...

[Regnier_Leinhart]

Sure I'm game.

[shawnrc]

I am game too

[The Speaker in Dreams]

Sorcerors amnd fighters all the way!

{sorry if it was unclear}

:bagjob:


Umm ... let's see. I guess the main books (PHB I and II, and DMG, Unearthed Arcana, and the Complete series) should be ok for this. I don't have all, but I do have CW. I'm figuring the rest will be ok as long as players know what does what and explain it/keep track of it on thier own - if I don't have it, I can't really keep track of it. ;)

My preference is going to be to stick to the basics of the core-books because I want to see the little change in rule set work itself out in actual play.

Any more takers? Looks like we've got maybe ... 3?

[colonialbob]

Yeah, I might be in... how exactly would the damage-save system work?

[The Speaker in Dreams]

I've been working on it, and spells will have to figure on a case by case.

So far here's what I have:

Any time you would normally take damage, instead you roll vs. the Damage Save (by default = to Toughness Save).

The DC is determined by the incoming attack (depends on weapon type/spell description + variables like Strength, Power Attack, magic enhancement, feats, etc).

On a critical, the DC jumps up by 5 automatically (which is a HUGE effect for this system, IMO).

If you fail the check = 1 hit, and the Damage Save drops by 1 for future save checks.

If you fail by 5+ = 1 hit and you're stunned until the next action (penalties apply)

If you fail by 10+ = 5 hits, and automatically unconscious/dying. You're in trouble and more or less helpless.

Slight differences for "subdual" damage.

Every "hit" drops the DS by 1 for future checks.

I'm still working on healing, magic, etc to get it right to my sense of "correct"

Basically, against evenly matched opponents, it *shouldn't* be a constant hp attrition battle, but more of a skill - skill measurement. Against lower powered opponents, the PC's should be able to easily plow through them (ie: they have higher DC's to overcome for a lower powered opponent). Due to the save system, the lower powered types are more likely to blow the save by a greater margin = they're out of the fight sooner than a standard HP decrease.

[colonialbob]

It sounds like this would be lend itself a little more realistic, even gritty, feel to it... but yeah, I'm in.

[Lapis Lazuli]

<span style="color:#3333ff">Just wondering if you might be planning on converting the damage dice to dmg bonus as well [as in M&M]? I <span style="font-family:Comic">reckon you just about have to to make it work with the DS.</span></span>

I just did the other conversion for Vibe [my heroic alter ego] for the Echoes game,so if you're all wondering what a DnD converted hero looks like his entire character sheets posted in the echoes character thread.

:happy_dance: Check it out and see how awesome I am!

<span style="color:#3333ff">If so it's kinda like every dice of dmg roughly equates to a +1 mod to your dmg [d20] roll.So a 6d6 fireball would actually be like a +6 mod to the roll,then they do a resist roll of like a d20+Con+Ds mod. [things like stone skin or DR would convert to DS bonuses,ect.].<span style="color:#3333ff">The DS modifires were usually limited to the characters lvl irregardless of how many you had stacked.Though a higher lvl character might "buff" you with a spell of thier lvl.For the most part however you lvl in M&M was your cap on about anything you could do [cept skills could still be 3 pts higher]. Now this is textbook,and the Dreamer may be costumizing it to suit his camp, I just wanted to give you some examples of what it could be like.</span></span>

On that note,we talking PbP,or chat-room,or you actually wanna pick everyone up and car pool over to my place for pop and pizza?Just asking,cause I'm interested as well,but the swing shift keeps me outta the loop usually.So let me know when you can my good man!

[The Speaker in Dreams]

Yeah ... a bit of "realism" is partially the intent. Mostly, though, it's that HP attrition fighting has really started to bore me to death!

I'm hoping that the DS system will speed play in that regard. I'm likely going to mess with the hp die types/class and come up with some sort of bonus for higher HD types ... the whole thing is really up in the air for now. I'm playing with stuff on paper to see how it looks. As soon as it's finalized, I'll let everyone know what's up in a game-forum or something like that.

[Lapis Lazuli]

^_^ 1-You might consider ignoring HD and treating the creatures threat level as is effective Power level.
The point being,higher threat levels allow it to posess higher ranks of DS. Like how M&M heroes can stack their DS bonus,capping at their lvl...why not use this as a rule of thumb for creature threat lvls?The greater the threat,the harder it will be to actually harm.It wouldn't be a pt for pt thing,just provide the potential for it to have ds enhanced to such a lvl.That would do away with HD altogether,except for formulating threat levels and xp.
<span style="font-family:Comic"> </span>

<span style="font-family:Comic"><span style="color:#3333ff"> 2-On the other hand you could just convert HD directly to a DS bonus, on a 2HD for 1 pt ratio or something.Sure that goblin isn't adding crap,but that dragon of like 30HD is adding +15 to his ds save...talk about being something to truly fear!He only ever gets hurt on a roll of "1" !</span>
<span style="font-family:Comic"> </span></span>

<span style="font-family:Comic"><span style="font-family:Comic"> 3-HD as an attribute rating to determine DS bonus.Look HD up on the same chart as any other attribute,like Strength...hmm let me see,Lapis is totally awesome and has like 10 awesome HD [snickering] that's no bonus.Now we look at CBOB who has like 20 HD...so we see he adds a DS bonus of +5 [just as if he would if we were looking up his str].That way only 12 or more HD monsters get ds bonus,so we can live a little longer.12-13HD +1, 14-15HD +2, 16-17HD +3, 18-19HD +4, 20HD +5,ect....</span>

*So far opt. 3 is the one I'd most reccommend.Shows HD make a diff,and keeps it playable.
Rangers Fav. enemies could just be directly converted to DMG mod. too.

As far as monster types,ect.I see no need to mess with the classifications themselves.Just allow their particular immunities/vulnerabilities to modify thier DS.[for example bane weapons normally do like say 2d6 to whatever its baned to,just reduce the monsters Ds by 2,ect.].</span>

Speaking of Ds, Bullet proof heroes like Vibe turn their ds mods into DR when converting to a hpt system,so I was wondering if you were converting monster DR into DS save modifiers as well?


PS-Yes CBOB,you can use my image as your desktop wallpaper,I even autographed it for you!

[The Speaker in Dreams]

All interesting ideas ... I'll have to come back to them when I'm up to converting monsters (likely, I'll only convert what I need really).

I'm not planning to "cap" anything like M&M does, but more like just play normal D&D w/a damage save in place. That said, some of the general guidelines you lay out are looking nice because they are very straight forward. Kudos!

On the note of "gritty" I'm also planning to rip the Hero Points from M&M and adapt it for D&D so that should keep players living longer and pulling off more impressive stuff than all the other folks. Don't worry ... I will be designing this to keep players alive. :top:

[Lapis Lazuli]

<span style="color:#3333ff"> :orc: <span style="font-family:Comic">Death is an acceptable part of any game my friend Dreamer,just as long as I see CBob go first it is anyway!</span></span>

<span style="font-family:Comic"> :dwarf: BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GODS!!!</span>

[mexal]

Looks an interest concept - but will it run the danger of (particularly destructive in forum-based games) getting bogged down with waiting on someone to roll dice instead of getting on with the game?

[The Speaker in Dreams]

I hope the damage save system will actually speed up combat greatly (thus letting the focus be on the RP intensive situations).

We'll have to see how it plays out, though. Most anything with a low DS is much more likely to get taken out right away, IMO, from even the first well placed hit in most combats. In theory, I expect this system to really kick up things like Cleave and Great Cleave such that PC's could (even against a party of like-leveled/CR type critters) conceivably win within the first round of combat by a few well placed hits, some Power Attack, and enemies rolling DS poorly. For instance, if you've got like a 20 or so DC damage save coming in from a PC, and up against enemies with ... say a +5-+6 DS, they've got to roll pretty well to avoid hits. If they total 10 or less, they've failed by 10 and are essentially out of commission for the fight, thus opening up an immediate second attack for Cleave/Great Cleave, etc.

PC's will have the option of "Hero Points" to counter the effects of suffering many of these same effects themselves (ie: gain an immediate re-roll, or cancel the effects of a debilitating condition in combat, etc).

I'll be lifting the M&M damage save system (hero points and all) for this as I like the way they handle it overall better than most other things in the system presented in Unearthed Arcana (too much die-rolling to figure a DC, IMO).

[Lapis Lazuli]

Speaking of the M&M, and reflecting on HD as well [from earlier in thread]. There is always the minion option.

For those of you who do not play M&M,Heroes and true villains would use the DS and pts to see if they fall.Minions/henchmen,non-essential npcs all ignore pts and either make a successful ds save and ignore the hit [as would a hero],or fail and fall [no pts to keep track of].

If applied to encounters in a fantasy game,bosses would be tracking hits like a player charcter,but his horde of goons could be felled ,especially with cleaving,in one hit.Good for lower lvl mobs such as kobolds ect ect.

<span style="color:#3333ff"> On the idea of dice rolling...how does one do a dice roll in a play by post?We could just declare our intentions and allow the gm to resolve things like dice rolls behind his gm screen [we call it the interweb!] and just worry bout the rp part.Let the gm sweat out the mechanics.That way if like cbob misses a "round" by going to the fridge for a mt dew,we don't have to worry bout the dice-waiting.</span>

[The Speaker in Dreams]

Minions are definitely a possibility for this game. Something I've been toying with from the get, though given the nature of the DS system, lower type saves (ie: low CR's) are a lot more likely to tank their rolls anyway (against the DC's PC's are likely to toss at them anyway).

:top:

[The Speaker in Dreams]

Ok, since I've gotten to thinking about this more I may be ready to start running it soon.

I know there has been interest in the game mechanic swap, and now I believe I have the concept to back it up.

Loosely, the game is based around every PC being a Paladin of some sort of mixture (particulars are still being determined). The only requisite is that all be continuing to advance (or at least eligible to advance) as Paladins.

I'm not sure where I want to go with the multi-class restrictions - I may remove them, or leave them in place.

I'm thinking about a variable pool for PC's to roll out for starting PL individually (thus creating a group of Paladins of varying levels and capabilities. There are many options out there for paladins to play with, and so I'd like to see them attempted in whatever combinations PC's can come up with, but always with the end goal of maintaining Paladin status and morals.

The game will be exploring several different themes:

The role of Paladin's in society
The corruptive nature of power
The common bonds between Paladins
The role of religion on the field of battle
Good vs. Evil
Might vs. Right

{most other classic tropes of Fantasy as well}

Race wise, I hoping to keep this as close to core as possible, so outrageous monstrous races should be avoided. In fact, setting wise it will be a homebrew campaign similar to Faerun in tone and design with some of my own twists. The Paladins will all be drawn together to come to a relatively rural township and it will take off from there. The town is part of the human territories and overseen by them, so humans will be the easiest fit here.

Caveat to all concepts: very creative ideas, of course, are always welcome. So if you have an unusual race idea, or anything else that is outside of what I've described above, explain it in a character proposal and send it to me via pm on the board.

Any interested parties should first respond to this same thread (I've changed the original name of the thread) with your interest, and then PM me the character concept when it is completed.

NOTE: Since I am also taking input at this point, any suggestions on multi-classing, and/or improving or modifying paladins should be made in this thread and I will consider all thoughts before posting up my final decisions. We're a community here at the tower, and I'd like to keep that feeling moving into the set-up of a new game.

[shawnrc]

count me in, I will make a character now. As far as multi-classing I would say once they are a pally then they can no longer take another class, unless it is a pally prestige... just my $.02

[colonialbob]

Hmm... I'm interested, and actually have the beginnings of what I think is an interesting character idea. The only thing would be I'd like to go barbarian for the first few levels, then paladin... but still have the rage ability. Not for power (although that's definitely not a downside) but for the story of it. A converted barbarian who's fighting to control his warrior spirit, something like that? Anyway yeah, just a minor tweak, and he'd probably be a straight paladin after those first couple of levels. If that doesn't work for you, I'm sure I can come up with something else.

[The Sentinel]

You know you can count me in on this once it rolls.

[mexal]

Sounds fun...

How about: a former thief who turned over a new leaf after a burglary went wrong, he got trapped, prayed for help and a deity heard - suddenly found himself in said deity's temple and so decided to follow him?

[The Speaker in Dreams]

Ok I've got one all for maintaining the Paladin class restrictions. I'm thinking that a few changes *might* be made to that in terms of what are acceptable class changes, and we may have an alternative class build for Paladins that we'll be using.

Any other thoughts about how anyone would like the game to run?

Note: We will be going Damage Save for the game (ie: no hit points)

[The Speaker in Dreams]

Ok all interested parties:

I have come across something that is very interesting and I'd like to get everyone's thoughts on this modified version of the Paladin Class. It's from the Wotc boards, and the builder/poster that worked on it seems to have earned quite a bit of respect for the re-build. I'm considering using it (or something heavily based upon it) for this game and I'd like to know thoughts.

Here's the site: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=761045

The class actually puts in perks in nearly every level now (sort of like the Ranger), and it makes staying full paladin a pretty viable option I'd think.

Thoughts?

[shawnrc]

I have read this before and like it alot. I would take it in a second, and the cool thing about it is you can specialize within also.

[Regnier_Leinhart]

I'm still looking it over, but seems fine to me.

[Soolee]

Read the Paladin changes. Sounds good but a little confusing. Your system is interesting as well. I'm interested. When where and how do we do Stats?.

[The Speaker in Dreams]

I'm still finishing up some game-stuff before I have the mods set up some forums for this game. Keep tuned to this thread for updates. Chances are I'll announce the change here, and then post up a link to the forums for the game's character generation area.

Maybe in 2-3 weeks we'll be ready to start statting up characters.

[Soolee]

Great. I know your ability as a player so I know your ability as a ceartive DM will be awesome. I have some questions. Do you want me to ask here or PM. I can be a nightmare for a DM. Ask Shawnrc

[mexal]

Which deities/paladinical orders will be available?

[King_Sloth]

The reformed thief is a neat idea that has merit. I believe the PrC Shadow Knight Inquisitor you have Detect evil as a spell or spell like ability and also sneak attack damage from a class. so Paladin/cleric and thief/scout/ninja combo is needed i think . But this does sound like a good set-up for a great game. I can imagine a Elvish Paladin. But he would be an outcast from the Elvish pantheon since not one of them is NG, LG or LN. Cant do the 1 step rule that a paladin needs. So a Elven Paladin would have to worship a human or other diety . Can you imagine an Elf worshiping Moradin?? Or Yondalla ??LOL :happy_dance: That would be funny .

But if i can count me in too.
:paladin:


:king: :paladin: King_Sloth :king: :paladin:

[The Speaker in Dreams]

Which deities/paladinical orders will be available?
[/b]

The game was originally designed for a home-brew campaign of mine, though it can work just as easily with the standard Greyhawk dieties from the PHB.

Really, I'm just starting to oversee this particular facet and looking to either go homebrew (in which case, I'll explain the dieties), or Greyhawk (for simplicity).

I'll post more on that when I have it finalized.

I've never heard of a Shadow-Knight Inquisitor ... sounds interesting, though. ;)

[King_Sloth]

<div class='quotemain'>
Which deities/paladinical orders will be available?
[/b]

The game was originally designed for a home-brew campaign of mine, though it can work just as easily with the standard Greyhawk dieties from the PHB.

Really, I'm just starting to oversee this particular facet and looking to either go homebrew (in which case, I'll explain the dieties), or Greyhawk (for simplicity).

I'll post more on that when I have it finalized.

I've never heard of a Shadow-Knight Inquisitor ... sounds interesting, though. ;)
[/b][/quote]

.

.



I gave it the wrong name I think. I now think it is called 'Shadow Bane Inquisitor' . It is from the book ' Complete Adventurer' . There is also another Shadow bane PrC , i think it is called Shadow Bane Infiltrator . Both are in C.A. .

:king: K_S :king:

[The Speaker in Dreams]

Ok, this game will be ready to begin in earnest very soon. Look for new posts about it soon!

[Barrok]

Let me know what forum space you need or any other Admin ... seems a good old game Speaker

[Mari]

Sorry to bug you Noble One but could you tell us Pallys how you want us to do stats so our characters are ready when you are. This will be great. Anxious to see how many will want to be Chiefs First conflict.

[The Speaker in Dreams]

Ok, while we wait for forums, here's what I have for generation so far:

1) Abilities = 4d6, drop the lowest and re-roll 1's and 2's (ie: 9-18 will be the starting stat range). Do this six times, arrange them however you feel. Honor system on this - roll what you roll and post it up. :)

2) EL is completely up in the air right now, but what is likely is that I'll want to get everyone on chat (together or individually) and there will be some measure of randomization to the EL. Everyone will roll ... something, and that's the total levels they can have to craft the character. I'm partial to 2d4 right now, but we'll see how things go ... My idea here is to provide some difference in the group along the lines of experience at the job (ie: EL) since everyone is more or less Paladins, the characterization will be helped out a lot by having different levels available to different characters/concepts/whatever. I'm not planning on too many major divergences for EL, but we'll see what happens. (Maybe it'll be honor system on this, too? :?: )

3) Any non-paladin class you're tossing into the mix needs to come before the Paladin progression (not PrC's, mind you). Build the characters as though they are Paladins now and planning to continue being Paladins.

4) I'm hesitant to just say "go to" because there are a lot of options and variants coming into play for the game (Damage Save vs. HP especially), so even if you bulid a Paladin - chances are that there will be some different options up and running.
Sorry I can't give much more than that right now ... the randomization piece prohibits it.

[Mari]

We should build it on first lvl pc then? We can use Invisible Castle for rolls. I have 2 accounts there and will gladly give my one accounts log in name and password for any one from this game that wants to use it. Just PM and request it

[The Speaker in Dreams]

Anyone interested in this should check out the game forum here:
http://barroks-tower.net/forums/index.php?showforum=537

[The Speaker in Dreams]

Ok, as an update, I currently have 4 players and am looking to take on a few more. I'm thinking maybe 3-4 more.

If anyone is interested, by all means contact me!!

:)

[The Speaker in Dreams]

*Bump*

I seem to have lost a few players, so I'm looking for a few more people that are interested in this game concept (if any).

There are a few threads to get a feel for the way the game is running right now.