Specialist Arrows

[Barrok]

I have been reading West Coast Avengers and thinking of Hawkeye too much..

Rope Cutter
This arrowhead is shaped as a 'y'with all sides sharpend. When fired at a rope or cord reduce hardness by half and double damage.
1d6 damage slashing

Screaming
The Wooden arrowhead have airholes carved in it, when it flight it lets looses a piercing scream along its flight path.
Range *3/4 Damage 1d3 Blugdeoning Subdual

Barbed
This arrowhead has nasy hooks all over the surface of it. When the arrow is taken out of hte target. The person must take a minute and make a heal check (18DC) or the victim takes an extra 1d3 points of damage. If the arrow head is not removed, the very next day and every day after, there is a 25% chance that the victim will contact a random disease.
-2 Attack Roll rangr *3/4 1d8 Piercing Damage


Please add any ideas or comments below..

[Sorloc]

Ding ding ding!
That's right, you guessed today's Secret Word!
Take a look at Games > Lost on the Sea of Stars > Characters... > Colleen.
Funny you should go into this now :)

What I REALLY need is a d20 specific set of rules on how to create these "Create Mundane Item"?, how to invent things, how to craft normal, mundane objects... since crafting things has no direct combat effects, it has been mostly glossed over by D&D since the beginning of time. The above mentioned character was approved by 2 D&D GMs, and declined by 2 others, because there were no system mechanics for designing and building new bows and arrows. :sob:
The following is from MY game... it was created for Rolemaster, but I've altered all RM-specific mechanics and terms so as not to frighten anyone ;)
<span style="font-family:Courier">
Name ...... RangeMod : Wt. (kg) . Notes
Flight .... +100% .... 0.02 ...... ½ damage
Target .... +80% ..... 0.03 ...... ½ damage
Bodkin .... +15% ..... 0.06 ......
Broadhead . -- ....... 0.07 ......Standard
Cut ....... -20% ..... 0.11 ......
Wood ...... +90% ..... 0.01 ......
Signal .... -50% ..... 0.09 ......

Name ...... Plate . Chain . Rigid . Soft . Skin/Hide .
Flight .... -10% .. -10% .. -10% .. -10% . -10% ......
Target .... -30% .. -20% .. -20% .. -15% . -15% ......
Bodkin .... +10% .. +20% ... +5% ... +5% .. -5% ......
Broadhead .. +0% ... +0% ... +0% ... +0% .. +0% ......
Cut ....... -30% .. -10% .. -20% .. +10% . +20% ......
Wood ...... -50% .. -20% .. -25% .. -10% .. +0% ......
Signal .... -30% .. -10% .. -15% ... -5% .. +0% ......


Flight Arrows are thinner, shorter, and have smaller heads than a normal arrow. They are designed to fly further.
Target Arrows have blunt heads and are not intended to kill. They rarely impale (-50% chance).
Bodkin Arrows have thin round pointed heads specifically designed to penetrate armor. The chances of an impale are doubled. an arrow stuck in foe does 1 hit each round until removed.
Broadhead Arrows are the standard arrows.
Cut Arrows have thich heavy and wide heads. They are intended to maximize damage to lightly armored foes, although they are very limited against heavily armored foes. They can be used to cut ropes.
Wood Head Arrows are arrows with no stone or metal head. They are only made from necessity.
Signal Arrows are larger than normal arrowheads, but are cast rather than forged, with a certain sand mixed in (the type of sand that will not melt with the bronze is a guarded secret) that is removed when cooled, leaving holes that cause a whistling noise in flight. The sound is louder at low speeds, so they are generally most audible near the top of their arc (this is nice because the archer's location is not revealed).</span>

[Barrok]

it just takes a bit of thought really of how to make the mechanics bend a bit to accomodate new arrows, since in history there were many differing types of arrow used for different occasions.

I'll have athink about the other type of arrows here and come out with something in a d20 style by the end of the day - if I forget PM till I get off my lazy backside and do it!

[LadyCatreece]

My Juliette has some Bodkin arrows, too...I had no idea you worked on those, Merilon!

Now if only she used them.....

[Barrok]

Flight Arrows are thinner, shorter, and have smaller heads than a normal arrow. They are designed to fly further.
Range *2 Damage 1d6 piercing

Target Arrows have blunt heads and are not intended to kill.
+2 Missile Attack Bonus 1d2 Piercing Damage

Bodkin Arrows have thin round pointed heads specifically designed to penetrate armor. Every round the target must make a Fort save (DC12) or take 1 point of damage until the arrow is removed.
Treat as Masterwork Arrow

Smoke Arrow is a specially alchemically treated arrow whose shaft when lit continually smokes. The smoke last for 1d3 minutes, If fired into a room or enclosed space it fills 10'cu of smoke every 2nd round.
-1 Attack 1d4 Piercing Damage

[Barrok]

yup start re writting Acolyte I have been writing 1st Ed stuff for people over the last couple fo days so I'm suffering from Edition crossover Flu!!

[Knight of Roses]

Interesting all, this is how I would do things. ~A descriptions still stand, my post will be pure mechanics . . .

Flight Arrows Add 50% a bow's range increment when firing flight arrows, but for damage treat the arrows as if shot by a bow one size smaller and no more than +1 to damage can be gained from using a Str bow. DC 16 to create. Cost:1 gp.

Target Arrows Increase a bow's range increment by 25% when firing target arrows, but treat the arrows as if shot by a bow two sizes smaller for damage and no more than +1 to damage can be gained from using a Str bow (and it is bludgeoning, not piercing damage). Within 30' you can use a target arrow to inflict subdual damage, taking a -2 attack penalty. DC 14 to create. Cost: 1 gp.

Bodkin Arrows pierce (ignore) 2 points of armor bonus to target's AC. DC 17 to create. Cost: 2 gp.

"Bowel Raker" or "Flesh Tearer" only have 75% of the range of a normal arrow for this bow, but these arrow inflict damage as if the bow was one size larger. However, against any target with a Armor or Natural Armor bonus of +2 or more they suffer a -3 attack penalty. DC 16 to create. Cost: 2 gp.

Wood Head Arrows as target arrows but no bonus to range and a -2 to attack. DC 12 to create.

"Humming Bulb" or Signal Arrow Halve range increments for bows firing signal arrows and apply a -2 penalty attack roll and but for damage treat the arrows as if shot by a bow one size smaller (and the damage is bludgeoning) and no more than +1 to damage can be gained from using a Str bow. DC 17 to create. Cost: 2 gp each.

Nice rules on the Barbed Arrow, but I would reduce the range by to 75% and use penalties to attack as the "Flesh Cutters" above.

And, I am tired now . . .

[Knight of Roses]

Yes, the size of weapon as per PHB p 114. For example a medium short bow does 1d6, a small one 1d4, a large one 1d8. Something I have gotten very used to working with. So an elven longbow using a 'Flesh Cutter' arrow would do 2d6.

Anyone who is using these arrow types is going to be keeping track of the information themselves (I would suggest 3x5 cards or a seperate sheet). So, I do not see this as a problem. If the player wants the increased complexity, he or she will have to deal with it.

I would go for the increased critical multiplier for bodkin arrows, but their big thing was piercing armor but they were short range due to their weight. They should have a range reduction too.

Need to add just an armor piercing arrow too, pierce (ignore) 2 points of armor bonus to target's AC but are treated as one size smaller for damage.

Anyway, having fun working on this with people.

[Barrok]

Got a couple more (also I might start on sling stones soon or other Rygast disks)

Door Shatterer - the arrow shaft is made of Mithril whilst the head itself is flat and unareodynamic. This is used against doors from a distance to shatter them so infantry can charge through.
(Iwas thinking maybe against wooden objects reduce hardness by 1/5 and the arrow inflict 2d6 damage - against the living the arrow inflicts bludgeoning damage maybe -2 to attack and reduce range ?)

Inferno - The arrow head is made of hollowed glas and inside it conrtains Alchemist's Fire. When it hits a target all those in 3'r take splash damage. The target takes arrow damage and also fire damage. There is a 25% chance that any combustable material in the area will catch fire.


I'm still having thoughts of maybe an arrow which can when hits propell an irritant into the area making it hard to see.. but shall think of others. (damn Hawkeye!)

[Sorloc]

The Bodkin is nothing but an armor piercing arrow, and it truly does no extra damage, actually a little less to unarmored targets, due to it not having the sharp edges that rip a bigger wound, or the barbs that make it do more damage to pull out backwards rather than push all the way through.

The confusion with the damage is resulting from the fact that armor is all-or-nothing in D&D.
If the attack gets through, a person in Steel Maxmillian Plate armor takes EXACTLY the same amount of damage as a naked beggar.
I have always shook my head over that. :unsure:
(And hit points based on your JOB? So a 30' tall Cyclops Wizard has d4 hit points while a 4" tall Pixie Warrior has d10?????? :o But I digress...)

It makes more sense for armor to reduce damage, not make you harder to hit (if anything, it makes you easier to hit, since it is heavy and impairs mobility)
D&D is the only system I've ever seen where armor makes you harder to hit, but doesn't protect you from damage at all. :huh:
The Bodkin Arrows would at least halve the damage reduction for armor (Chain would be worthless), while the damage reduction would be doubled for Cut / Bowel Raker and Signal Arrows.
The only fair way to handle this in D&D is to modify the armor class of the target vs a particular arrow type.
It is unfair and unbalancing to modify the damage in ANY way, since no other weapon has it's damage modified due to the effects of armor.

Continued in next post (http://barroks-tower.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=1164&st=15#)

[Sorloc]

Continued from previous post (http://barroks-tower.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1164&st=0#)

Re: ~A:
Target Arrows Cost: 1 gp.
Cut Arrows apply a -4 penalty to attack rolls but a +2 bonus to damage.
Wood Head Arrows apply a -4 penalty to the attack roll
Signal Arrows* DC 17 to create. Cost: 5 gp (if not more).
[/b]

Target arrows should be cheaper than normal arrowheads, they take less skill and less (and inferior) materials.
Cut Arrows: Isn't -4 a bit high? And the +2 damage will affect armored foes, but KoR addresses this below.
Wood Head Arrows: Again, -4 seems high to me. I should also post elsewhere that elves are exempt from any discussion of wood arrowheads. :)
Signal Arrows: The cost might be offset slightly by cheaper materials, but since they are difficult to make, they will fetch a higher price. So, wholesale price is low, but markup is high, and they will be rare.

Re: KoR:
Bodkin Arrows pierce (ignore) 2 points of armor bonus to target's AC.
"Bowel Raker" inflict damage as if the bow was one size larger. However, against any target with a Armor or Natural Armor bonus of +2 or more they suffer a -3 attack penalty.
Wood Head DC 12 to create.
"Humming Bulb" no more than +1 to damage can be gained from using a Str bow. DC 17 to create. Cost: 2 gp each. [/b]

Perhaps Bodkin arrows should do damage a one size smaller against unarmored foes?
Perhaps Bowel Rakers should do damage as one size smaller against aforementioned armored foes instead of a to-hit penalty?
Wood Head Arrows should be easy to make - much easier than Iron, wouldn't you think? I think even ~A's DC10 is high.
Signal Arrow - I don't think you should even get the +1 from STR; the power from a normal bow will collapse the "swiss cheese" structure of the arrowhead - or, alternatively, allow full STR bonus and specify that it is bludgeon damage, not pierce. Also , I think the 5 gp by ~A is more what I would expect for price.

[Sorloc]

Aaaaand Theeeen:

The type of fletching an arrow has can greatly affect the arrow's performance. It is the fletching that determines how accurately and swiftly an arrow flies after an arrow is launched.

<span style="font-family:Courier">
Fletching Types: ============ MODIFIERS =============
................ To Hit: Damage: Range: Weight: Cost: . DC:
Metal ............ +1 .... +1 ... 60% .. 175% . 300% ... 17
Second set (dual). +2 .... +0 .. 110% .. 105% . 200% ... 16
Dual Metal ....... +3 .... +1 ... 67% .. 180% . 600% ... 17
Curved ........... +4 .... +1 .. 150% .. 105% . 200% ... 18
Curved Metal ..... +5 .... +2 ... 90% .. 185% . 600% ... 18
None ............ -15 .... +0 ... 40% ... 95% .. 60% ... --</span>

[Knight of Roses]

While all of the types of arrows I have covered have some sort of historical analog, I know of know for strange fletchings. How are these suppose to work?

Now, my understanding of the bodkin arrows is that they combined a heavier, usually chisel or three sided, arrow head on a thicker shaft to impart more energy at impact. Thus a shorter ranger.

While Japanese armor piercing arrows used a narrow arrowhead for the same purpose but did not make the overall arrow heavier.

But I could be wrong. Did find a nice photo of arrow heads though, bodkin points are on the left.

[Sorloc]

That is a cool picture, and thanks!
The tern 'bodkin' refers to a needle; I see it as long and thin.
The ones on the left look like Bowel Rakers to me, although I had pictured a reverse half moon.

The fletchings are from the thought that all projectiles fly straighter and further when spinning along their axis, and, the fletchings act as fins or wings on aircraft and other projectiles, and therefore will affect the missile's performance dramatically.

[Knight of Roses]

I understand the theory, but if adding a second set of fletchings (or curved ones) really added so much, why were they not used?

Though I can see some argument for metal fletching providing a better flight.

[Sorloc]

Because nobody cares any more. Since gunpowder, little effort has gone into designing a better arrow. They are only ever used for sport, and as sports go, it's not even in the top 50. Far more research goes into a better golf ball than a better arrow, but reading up on aerodynamics has convinced me that if anyone cared to redesign an arrow, they would look much different.

[Knight of Roses]

This is not meant to be sarcastic or an insult so please do not take it as such.

And the 4,000 years that bows were used as weapons of war? Nobody thought up a better arrow during that time? Japan was using the bow as a military weapon up until the mid-19th Century and it still is part of many martial schools there. The Victorians considered archery a great sport. Not to mention modern bow hunters and so on. If their was a better arrow design, I suspect it would have been tried and long ago.

Just because they did not have access to our level of technology, does not mean our ancestor did not experiment with and improve on their weapons. I strongly suspect that the arrow is, well, the best shape for an arrow.

[Sorloc]

The physics of archery ('http://mrfizzix.com/archery/')

[Knight of Roses]

Interesting site, far too math/physics heavy to mean much to me. But I certainly did not see anything that would make me change my mind.

But to support my argument, modern arrows ('http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/ammunition/apfsds.htm').

[LadyCatreece]

But it doesn't even have a pretty green background!!

<giggles>

[Sorloc]

Well, the math and physics was intense, but I think I get the idea...
I still think that curved fletchings would work.
I also think that the metal fletchings would work, much like the plastic ones used on modern arrows, but the arrows would be much heavier, and that would reduce the range - just like I said ;)

OK, seems like the following is true for bows of all type:

longer bow = greater range + more damage
shorter bow = shorter range + less damage
long fletchings = shorter range + better accuracy
short fletchings = greater range + less accuracy
lighter arrow = greater range + less damage
heavier arrow = shorter range + more damage
lighter bow = greater range
heavier bow = less range

therefore:
A small light bow is very comparable to a huge heavy bow with respect to range.
Bows are pretty much only accurate to 50m (150'), which nearly all small bows are capable of, so small bows and large bows are comparable with respect to accuracy.

Bow Material
Pros
Cons
Wood (Yew)
Light, Fast, Cheap
Prone to Warp at Temperature Change, not mass-produced (if a limb breaks, etc.)
Aluminum
Light, Moderately Cheap
WILL eventually break or stay permanently bent. That is immiment.
Fiberglass
Light, Very Fast
Prone to warping in extreme weather (may break if used on a cold day, may become *too* flexible if used on a hot day).
Spring Steel
Heavy, Slow, Extremely Powerful
Too heavy to be of use for any bow except a crossbow.

Arrow Material
Pros
Cons
Wood
Cheap
Imperfect, liable to break or warp
Fiberglass
Light, Precise; Easy to fit to draw length and weight
Difficult to find, liable to snap
Aluminum
Greatest Range of Sizes, Weights; Light, More Precise, Interchangable Arrowheads
Expensive
Carbon
Durable, Most Precise, Light, Interchangable Arrowheads
Very Expensive

Fletching Material
Pros
Cons
Feathers
Lighter, More Forgiving if brushed up against hand or bow, Faster (for the first 50m), Cheaper, Easier to fix and to replace
Makes noise when in the air (although that can be a good thing), useless when wet, deforms easily.
Plastic Vanes
Waterproof, Can be made specific to bow or hunting conditions, quieter, faster (lose less speed through air, 50m), More durable if passed through target
Unforgiving if fletching touchers hand or bow as loosed, more likely to get ripped off the shaft.

So what I need is enchanted Aluminum bow so it won't break, or Spring Steel enchanted for lightness,
Aluminum arrows,
and long curved metallic fletchings. :D
Or just cast 'Nevermiss' every time

[Sorloc]

Re: ~A:
The level of detail of some of this discussion goes far beyond the scope of what d20 tries to accomplish. [/b]
Agreed, although to create a system mechanic, I feel that it is best whenever possible to look at our reality (the only one we can observe), see how things work, and then boil them down into a playable mechanic, rather than just pull some fancy out of our collective a$$es (which I was just found to be guilty of doing).
Even I don't want to solve
½ mv2 + k ½ mbv2 = eFd/2. That's our root equation, and to solve for "v" we get:
v = (eFd/ (m+kmb) )-2 as the velocity of our arrow at its leaving the bow.
Depending upon the angle at which the arrow is launched we get the horizontal and vertical components of the arrow.
V x Cos(Ø) = Vx
V x Sin(Ø) = Vy[/b]
every time I fire an arrow, but, knowing how it works gave me a terrific insight on what doesn't work, and where superior materials, and even enchantments might come in handy.

¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
As far as my ranting goes, I apologize, I'll try to keep it to a minimum, it's just every time I go delving in that book and come up against a core mechanic that is just plain (IMHO) ridiculous, I think of how can that be fixed, which leads to another thing that needs to be fixed, which leads to another.... etc, and then my brain goes "sproing!" and a rant pops out. Usually they just caper about the place then collapse (they only live in the wild for about ten minutes), but occaisionally one will fall on the keyboard, where it will live forever in digital form.
I will say two things though:
1) If it were fine the way it is, this site would be mighty quiet, and there wouldn't be a need for Arcana Unearthed, Unearthed Arcana, or HaYouDontHaveThisExpansion vol.XXVI (p.s. that's not a dig at you, ~A, honest)
2) After 30 years and lost track of how many revisions (I think 4), I just expect better.

[Tiernon]

Flight Arrows - I'd like to see something better about them - like maybe they have a chance at snapping when they hit a target, making them impossible to remove if they snap in a person, just to give them a little edge of nastiness

[Knight of Roses]

Nice work combining everything ~A, now I just need to cut, paste and edit it for my game. Thanks.

[Tiernon]

Yah I was a bit harsh -.-
What I really meant was I think them breaking would improve them slightly, and since they are thinner I think it would stand to reason that they'd be more prone to breaking (which can be bad at times, but useful in the situation where I said they couldn't be removed from snapping(|)

[Tiernon]

That works too ^.^