4e Chat and Observations/Ideas?

[The Speaker in Dreams]

I've not noticed anything around here for discussing 4e yet (I may have just missed it, though), so I figure I'll start it with this thread (yea!)

Ok, so I was poking around trying to figure out what's going on with 4e from RPG Net and the Wizards site. I'm still a little off as there seems to be a LOT of discussion, but little in the way of "official" notices. :shrugs:

So I'm just wondering who knows what for certain about 4e? No speculation or comments from the peanut gallery - just verified "this will be in 4e" types of stuff.

That is one point of the thread.

The second IS discussion about said things. I'd just say to clarify between "fact" and "opinion" in the posting.

Last thought:

One of the interesting things I came across was the idea of simplification of the system overall. One thing that I read was that AC would be done away with as a separate calculation of sorts. I really couldn't find much of anything solid (not even the Max Dex thing), but I did find a few interesting "rumors" I guess.

New Calculation of AC = 10 base + Reflex Save + Armor Bonus + Misc. Bonus (ifn any)

Now .... I thought about this and it is a very simple, and easy way to boost AC's for quick-moving characters that *are* likely to move out of the way better than most (ie: Rogues).

I really kind of like that idea as it is a VERY simple addition to the existing rules, and is does give credit where it is due (ie: doesn't seem unbalancing in concept/archetype/class/whatever). I'm actually thinking about making this small adjustment to existing 3.X games just to play test it out. AC's will go a bit higher ... but BAB already goes MUCH higher than everything else, so I figure it's about time some sort of class-based AC boosting effect was introduced to the D20 mechanics.

Thoughts?

[Barrok]

I suppose you could see the forerunner of this mechanic in the Scout class (complete Adventurer) Where if you moved in a round you got a bonus to AC. I sort of understand the Reflex save angle but Armour does retard movement thus would there be a penality there? I still think one of the better combat systems is Rolemaster for this where each weapon has its own damage table which relates to 20 types of Armour Class (the result is then modified from Offfensive Bonus of Attacker and Defensive Bonus of Defender) <-- has gone off the point somewhat

[The Speaker in Dreams]

I honestly have NO idea about the Scout Class, or how the 4e is going to actually implement it. I thought it was a neat idea, though, playing off of the existing mechanic in a *slightly* unorthodox way.

I wonder if something like a reduced Armor check penalty would maybe reduce the Reflex Save? But then it's Ref + AC + Stat + Misc. - AC Penalty? That's weird since the AC is stacking/adding in the one phase, and then in the very same phase, it's reducing based on a smaller #. Seems ... counter-intuitive to me.

Why not just lower the overall AC bonus in the first place based on movement/reduction?

On second thought, don't heavier Armor's lower your move outright anyway? Ie: the Speed changes = you're hindered. So hitting characters for AC AND speed seems to double-penalize them.

:shrugs:

One of the more appealing aspects of this for me was that there was finally a "seamless" way to add in a BDB progression to the system when HP, BAB, combat, saves, etc, etc, all constantly increased. However, AC was damn near unmoving at around a 20-25 cap IF you managed to get the best of magic-type equipment. With all the Armor OR Dex bonus restrictions (ie: Max Dex rating) on the armor, it was already necessarily hindered and you either got the high armor bonus, or a minor armor bonus and the dex bonus. That kind of bothered me quite a bit. I like the (at least proposed) straight additions/compounding of AC bonuses since that allows characters to get better at avoiding damage as they went up in level rather than just a constant HP vs. HP smash-fest.

Combat Expertise could help *some* to boost AC, but only for 5 points until Imp Comb Exp came out in CW. Even so ... that was feat-specific investment JUST to be able to do something you sort of *should* be able to do with greater experience anyway. Of course HP in D20 is also "better at dodging" so who can tell? It's all too abstract sometimes - good or bad. Now, with an increasing BDB, I could easily see the addition of another combat-feat that specifically lets you trade in BDB for BAB or extra damage - maybe 1 feat for each thing. Just adds additional flavor. Add in power attack, and you could truly make for the "combat brute" that trades in his to hit for a damage bonus, and his bdb for more damage bonus and/or a small degree of increased "to hit" bonus. Those kinds of things can make combat much more dynamic on a round to round basis, IMO, and really liven it up just with the player deciding where the bonuses are going on any given round. One round = impossible to hit. Next = opened up, but looking to 1-hit kill anything that gets too close, etc. I like that element a LOT compared to the straight AC = 21 this round and all rounds kind of thing.